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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

poling out the jib

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cyclenski23
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/07/2014 : 10:47:14

How do you guys do it? Poling out the jib downwind.

I tried it, by myself last night in our weekly wed night race instead of putting the spinny up, and it was better than nothing, but the pole made an arc pressing against the forward lower shroud.

i have two poles, one is a narrow, almost boat hook width pole, and one is a much thicker, spinnaker pole.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2014 : 11:04:06

I put it out between the forward lower shroud and the stay. I imagine it would depend on the size of the sail where it works best though.

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cyclenski23
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2014 : 11:15:11

i thought about doing that, was a bit worried about it hanging up if SHTF, but would make a better angle of attack for it, with 2 people im sure its alot easier.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2014 : 11:43:37

In all but very light air, too risky to place it between the forward lower and upper shrouds. However, placing it forward of the forward lower does limit you somewhat in how far you may sheet back the genoa. The spinnaker pole is limited in length, so, as a whisker pole, it would only work with a working jib or furler brought in to working jib size. For my genoa on the C25, I had a Forespar ADJ 8-15.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2014 : 13:40:32

I too would put my whisker pole between the forward lower and the middle (cap?) shroud, but only in light air. it was a tremendous help in those situations and I used it a lot racing. But I'd really only need it in light airs, because it was a bit easier to keep the jib full in bigger air.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 12:05:24

On "This Side Up" I had a Forespar 7-17 pole which was extended to 15' 9". It was NEVER set between the shrouds because of the shifty winds on our lake.
You should never sail dead down wind with a pole up - it's the slowest point of sail possible. You sail with the wind over the corner of the transom and keep the pole and boom parallel. Thus trimming it square to the boat is not necessary. If the wind shifts forward, you ease the pole and trim the main. If the wind goes aft you trim the pole and ease the main. If this won't keep the wind over the transom corner, then make a small course shift. Remember my old mentors maxim "there are no automatic transmissions on sailboats".
Using this method we used to eat the competitions lunch going downwind - while they were not paying attention while eating their lunch!

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 13:16:14

Are you saying a broad reach, or just running off a few degrees from ddw? Im wondering because theres no way to get the poles parallel on a reach. I believe you're just saying a few degrees off which is always a good idea. Saves from accidentally gybing also.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 15:38:11

Derek is right, of course. The fastest point of sail downwind on a C25 (or C-22, for that matter), is not directly downwind on your 6, but with the wind coming at you from a slight angle, like 7 o'clock or 5 0'clock.
Trim your whisker pole back to the forward lower, can be snug, then trim the main so the boom is in line with the pole. Gybe when necessary. One trick you can do with the main sheet is to sail down wind, let your main out until the boom just barely touches aft lower. Pull it back in about 1-2 inches and tie a stopper knot in the main sheet. Let the main back out until the knot stops the main. If the pole is just barely touching the aft lower again, the knot is set right.
Next time you sail downwind, you can now let the main all the way out without worrying that it will slam into the rigging. That is your maximum main setting. That may still be too much for the genoa poled out to be in line, but it may be close. Downwind the forward lowers will be slack, so it's okay to trim the genoa back with the pole bending slightly due the the forward lower, just only a little bend. You don't want to risk bending the pole to the breaking point or so that is damages the collapsing feature.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3312 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2014 : 20:48:47

Rob, I don't know whether you would call it a broad reach - I just kept the windex arrow pointed at the transom corner and I could always get the poles parallel.

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cyclenski23
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 05:03:55

some great ideas here on this subject, looked at my pole and the end cap did get damaged, ill upload a pic, and ill upload one of the two poles i have, hopefully tonight.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2014 : 14:49:49

The pole i the photo is not big enough to hold the load. Derek had the right pole, I would not use anything weaker.
http://www.riggingshoppe.com/browse.cfm/whisker-pole-adj.-7-15ft-forespar/4,19442.html
7'-17' ADJUSTABLE HEAVY DUTY TELESCOPING POLES (TWIST LOCK)These telescoping whisker poles are heavy duty two section and three section aluminum spars which can be extended to lengths up to 17' and securely locked in position by an internal twist lock device. Poles feature self-latching Ultra SeriesÖ fittings on the inboard and outboard ends. (PE-3SF or PE-3SC Mast Pad Eyes recommended) SEE PAGE Inboard Ends Outboard Ends Part No; 407100Model No; ADJ 7-17-DLSize/Weight; Three sections extending from 83-inch to 202-inch, 2 in. outer tube diameter.With self-latching fittings on both ends/9 lbs.

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cyclenski23
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 05:26:30

ok, so i didnt get to take pics last night, but i DID go for a sail, 20-25 knot winds, storm at the bottom of the lake, it was great, ill get back to the job at hand next week )

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 06:41:31

I sailed last night with a storm coming in from the Northwest, the moon on one side and far away lightning on the other, it was lovely.

Edited by - pastmember on 08/10/2014 10:11:18

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 11:14:14

quote:
Originally posted by Derek Crawford

On "This Side Up" I had a Forespar 7-17 pole which was extended to 15' 9". It was NEVER set between the shrouds because of the shifty winds on our lake.

If you're using a Forespar 7-17 pole, then there's no need to set it between the shrouds. But, if you're using a Forespar 6-12 pole, or a home-made pole of similar length, you have to set it between the stays to make it work. Derek's lake is notorious for having sudden strong gusts that could easily snap a light weight pole, but in most places where I have sailed and raced, I have used a 6-12 pole between the stays for many years with no problems. The key is, only use it in light air. The small poles aren't strong enough for strong winds. In 23 years, I never had a pole break because it was set between the shrouds. If a light weight pole breaks, it will most likely be because you used it in too much wind.

quote:
You should never sail dead down wind with a pole up - it's the slowest point of sail possible. You sail with the wind over the corner of the transom and keep the pole and boom parallel. Thus trimming it square to the boat is not necessary. If the wind shifts forward, you ease the pole and trim the main. If the wind goes aft you trim the pole and ease the main. If this won't keep the wind over the transom corner, then make a small course shift. Remember my old mentors maxim "there are no automatic transmissions on sailboats".

Using this method we used to eat the competitions lunch going downwind - while they were not paying attention while eating their lunch!

Derek is one of the smartest sailors I know, but the word "never" covers alot of territory. The method that Derek describes is generally best, but I'll sail any heading that gets the boat around the race course in the least amount of time. A yacht race isn't a race that is won by speed alone. It is won by taking into consideration a combination of time, speed and distance. The winner is the boat that crosses the finish line in the shortest amount of <u>time</u>. Sometimes traveling a shorter distance at a slower speed will get you to the finish line in a shorter amount of time than traveling a longer distance at a higher speed.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3993 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2014 : 05:50:04

Frank, You didn't mention the UFO on the left in the cloud..

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.