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Think I've found the boat

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aaron
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/11/2011 : 09:48:15

Thanks everyone for your collective help looking at the previous boat. I think I've found the one I'll be buying; it's a 89 standard rig wing keel. I've been through it and have a good feel for what needs to be done, the outboard is solid, and the test sail went great. Going to look at some additional sails at the seller's home today. With a bit of luck, we'll get the boat pulled out on the (included) trailer soon and I'll be able to check the bottom and through-hulls. Here's a link for those inclined to be curious. Hopefully I'll be able to register it with the association soon.

https://picasaweb.google.com/117970225101024029087/SummersOff?authkey=Gv1sRgCImfspjvsevE9AE

Summers Off, #5871, 1989 TR/WK, Redding CA

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 10:18:13

Outstanding! As has often been said, the '89-90 is the pick of the litter! Congratulations!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 11:04:49

Congratulations Aaron! I've got an '89 so if you've got any questions down the road feel free to ask me or any of the other folks on this site.

Before writing a check I think we would all like to see you spend $300 - $500 and have a good survey done. Could be the best money you spend on the boat. You will most likely need it before you can get insurance anyway. It could also help you get a discount on insurance if it checks put Ok.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 11:55:11

Nice find. Bilge looks clean and dry! Ditto on getting the survey, and find out about the crack in one of your pics.

Edited by - on

aaron
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 13:01:17

I would gladly spend the money on a survey, but in beautiful Redding, CA, there don't seem to be any surveyors to be found. The closest are all about 4 hours away, so I figure I'm on my own. I've been through Don Casey's books on surveying, the checklists on various websites, and of course been looking here, so I'm doing the best I can based on what knowledge I've picked up and having looked *very* thoroughly at several Cat 25s. The previous owners have all seemed to keep very meticulous documentation, and all of the original manuals and even a brochure are there. That makes me feel pretty good about the previous care that's been given the boat. DavidP, yeah, that crack is the thing that struck me as most odd; it's in the V berth in the liner that separates the anchor locker from the interior. Kind of weird.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 13:16:03

Yup--I forgot to enter my vote for the survey... If possible, attend with a clipboard and ask questions. The surveyors I've used encouraged it. There are some things, like wet deck/cockpit/cabintop core, that you can't detect (unless you have a moisture meter and experience using it).

BTW, the '89 does not have the infamous "to-hulls" of the early years--it has proper thru-hulls with exterior flanges, and ball-cocks (I believe), so that's not as much of an issue as you may have read here.

In 1989, the C-25 had become IMHO one of the nicest 25-footers built by anyone (to this day). Com-Pac made a very nice one (previously the Watkins 25), but the C-25 sails circles around it. The Cape Dory 25-D was (is) a beautiful Alberg classic, but more the size of a 23-footer above and below decks. The C-25 was just too costly for her market at that time. If she checks out, you're getting a gem!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/11/2011 13:17:21

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 13:37:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aaron
 ...DavidP, yeah, that crack is the thing that struck me as most odd; it's in the V berth in the liner that separates the anchor locker from the interior. Kind of weird.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mines got the same crack (not quite as big as yours) and I saw it on some others when I was looking. I believe mine happened when one of the PO's hit the dock with the bow and knocked a small chunk out of the bow. I think the sudden stop of the outer hull caused the inner liner to flex and caused what looks like caulk on mine to separate. It hasn't created any issues whatsoever.

If you don't get a survey be sure you check very carefully around all of the windows, hatches (especially the front hatch), the cockpit sole, and any deck penetrations for deck delamination or softness. If you tap the deck with the plastic handle of a screw driver it will make a dull or hollow tap (vs a sharp tap) if you hit an area that is delaminated or rotten.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Edited by - GaryB on 09/11/2011 13:45:17

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 15:50:27

I might even give up a swing keel to have an 89. Great find! Surveys are useful, but her history and a thorough personal inspection would be enough for me to write a check. Pearl did not need a survey for insurance due to her value (I don't know what the limit is, but it probably varies with companies and locations.), just a signed statement from me attesting to her being sound and seaworthy.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 18:13:02

Get that quick pin out of the forestay!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 18:29:28

Aaron, our first C25 was a 1981 and our curent one is a 1989. The newer deck design makes for a much dryer boat. The boat you are looking at though appears to be in need of re-caulking here and there. The interior looks like it has gotten damp - like it's been exposed to the elements. We have the exact same crack in the v-berth, aft of the anchor locker - appears to be caulk and purely cosmetic. Is there something wrapped around the backstay (picture #72) near the top?

Post 88 models are few and far between - don't dally.

Good luck!

Edited by - OJ on 09/11/2011 18:31:14

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 18:52:42

One thing that will need attention relatively soon is the rudder. It appears it is split open and will eventually cause problems even though it has the foam core.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 19:26:22

Good eyes, Frank and Gary... No deal-breakers there, though. The forestay is probably rigged for trailering--in a manner that has some risk. If this is in "winter" territory (?), I'd say the rudder was left out in freezing conditions. Since it's foam cored, it could be repairable. But don't ever let it freeze. I always stored mine inside in the winter.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3474 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 05:13:25

<< Get that quick pin out of the forestay! >>

You got that right!

Edited by - on

sfsmith
Navigator

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USA
120 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 10:34:27

Congratulations, Aaron. I lucked into an '89 wing keel about eight years ago, and I've been very happy with it. Mine also came with Standard Horizon instruments, so if you run into problems I might be able to help. I had to recalibrate the knot meter last spring. I also agree with the folks who advocate a marine survey. It's worth the money. You'll find a wealth of good info on this site, too. Cheers. Sol

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 10:45:53

I haven't heard form the guy that bought my '89 in a long while but I sure feel confident he has one great boat, don't pass up an '89.

Edited by - on

aaron
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 14:56:21

You guys are making feel pretty good about ending up with an '89! Sweet. I'm feeling pretty glad that the previous boat(s) didn't pan out. Now it's just a matter of finishing the transaction before the rest of the summer season is gone. Still need to pull it out of the water to inspect the bottom and keel joint, but schedules are complicating that. Grrr...

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 19:05:41

If you're buying through a broker, you can put an offer and a deposit down, both contingent on a survey. If no broker is involved, then deposits and contingencies are dicey. If you don't use an accredited surveyor, then that contingency is shaky as well.

Anyway, hope it works out!

Edited by - on

aaron
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2011 : 20:43:02

I'm actually buying from a guy who turned out to be my high school biology teacher--that was quite a surprise! Super nice guy, been great to work with. Looking forward to inviting him out post-transaction. I'm not worried about him selling it to someone else, as we've established a good rapport, I'd just like to do it before the weather starts turning! We've just got to get a good time for the inspection worked out in our schedules.

Edited by - aaron on 09/12/2011 20:43:29

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 10:38:01

Nice looking boat, enjoy!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 15:01:03

A long time ago, I vowed never to sell a car or a boat to a friend. I broke the rule with two cars (after unrelenting begging from friends), and then "Voyager" Bruce Ross bought Passage from the people I sold her to, and became a friend.

Point being... Anybody who sells a boat or car to somebody they know has to be pretty confident of the boat or car. Another lesson from over the years is when one thing doesn't pan out, generally a better thing does later. That most especially happened with where I live now.

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2011 : 17:08:39

Looks like it has potential, for sure, A friend has always told me, "you can pay too much for a bad boat, but never enough for a Good Boat!" I think that is sage advice. best of Luck, We love our 87 and have made it "OURS" over time.

Edited by - Alan Clark on 09/13/2011 17:09:19

Arlington
Navigator

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USA
196 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 16:21:54

Hi Aaron:
Welcome aboard! I bought Promise in January of this year, and have loved the boat. I think you will enjoy Summers Off as well. Congratulations, she is a beauty.

Edited by - on

aaron
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2011 : 18:33:26

Got it pulled out, and for the most part everything looked great. A couple smallish blisters, nothing to fret about... EXCEPT for the rash of very tiny blisters by the starboard bow area. It's an area that's probably a three foot ellipse/oval of small blisters, maybe 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. Here are a couple pictures (the angle of the sun is what made them stand out, they actually look less worse in person:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0ZnoBEugo50RcWuC2oKvj7BfYq3Ez0xu6SNx2FFk36c?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bggAAFsyl6T3kmIeZ0gy9rBfYq3Ez0xu6SNx2FFk36c?feat=directlink

The bottom paint is probably about 8 years old and the boat has been in the (fresh) water for the last three years. The keel area looked fine, no indication of the Catalina smile) as did the trailer.
I'm just pondering that little rash area. Wishfully, I want it to be a blister in the still thick bottom paint, but I think that it's wishful thinking on my part.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2011 : 19:28:18

I don't think those are blisters.

I think it's something in the paint. It's almost like it had small lumps of paint that were not strained out before they rolled the paint on. Could have even been some of the paint was drying on the roller or in the pan as they were rolling on the paint.

Another thought, you mentioned the paint is still thick, is it possible the bottom wasn't cleaned thoroughly and the paint was applied over some barnacle remains or some slime that balled up?

If allowed maybe you can take some sandpaper to a small area and see what happens when you sand it a little.

Even if these turn out to be blisters I would not worry about it. My boat has a five or six small blisters. Every year three or four seem to be in different spots. One year they are near the back and the next those have disappeared and there's some in a different spot. There are one or two that have been in the same spot since I boat my boat 4 years ago and they haven't changed at all.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2011 : 21:27:33

Fresh water is more likely to develop blisters than salt... That said, when I bought Passage, there were numerous tiny (1/8" or smaller) pock-marks in the boot stripe that my surveyor explained were due to micro-organisms, and not worth worrying about. Bruce probably still has them.

The C-25 hull is made up of many laminations, adding up to something in the area of 3/4" thick in most places (more in the bow and along the keel-line). What we're talking about is probably blisters in the gelcoat on top of all of that, and a few of them are not going to sink the boat in our lifetimes (or our grandchildren's).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/23/2011 21:28:15

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2011 : 17:26:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aaron
 ... EXCEPT for the rash of very tiny blisters . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Aaron, not a deal breaker - in my opinion.

Our current 1989 C25 has a handful of nickel-size blisters. Someday when we strip the bottom we will correct these. A former 1981 model had the same "rash." We opened and filled these with no recurrence.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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