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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Balanced Rudders anyone???

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/25/2011 : 14:52:17

I just got off the phone with Foss Rudders in Newport California - apparently these guys held the original contract with Catalina to build the rudders for our boats.

Don, their guy, told me that when Catalina moved to making eth rudders in-house he was asked to give up the moulds, which he did willingly. Now that Catalina is no longer interested in his shop making any parts, he is thinking it would be good to make a mould and supply rudders for our boats.

I think it would be good to have an option other than IDA Rudder.

So Don is making an offer to one lucky boat owner - If you live near Newport and have a balanced rudder, he would like to borrow it, fair it and polish it, then use it to make a mould so he can go into production making replacement rudders for our boats. The loaner will get back their original rudder and the first one made in the new mould.

When I asked what kind of price we would be looking at for rudders from his shop, Don's answer was "Whatever is out there now, I'll beat it." He is hoping to be sub $600 dollars, hopefully around $500.

So Newport (and vicinity) sailors, the challenge is yours - anyone out there thinking about a new or spare balanced rudder??? I need you to loan him yours so I can be second in line to buy one.

Edit to add website: http://www.boatrudder.com/index.htm A group buy would really kick this into gear.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - Prospector on 03/25/2011 14:58:51

Harleyworker
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 15:00:15

I'll probably be third in line, I still have the original 1979 rudder on mine and would love to upgrade it.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 15:03:03

Every C-25 from some time around 1987 on had one stock. It's also the fiberglass balanced model that Catalina Direct sells.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 15:12:15

Yup Dave, and a lot of those old rudders are waiting to split, leaving their sailors adrift. I know someone is out there looking at a split in theirs and praying it doesn't open up. That guy should be on the phone with Foss pronto.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 15:38:41

I bought one of the fiberglass balanced blades from CD (like the ones on the later C-25s)--loved it, and it never split. (But I kept in inside during the winter.) Splitting seemed to be a standard feature of the original, unbalanced blades, (up to about '87), as it was on my '85--specifically around the "head" above the waterline, where the wood core was.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/25/2011 15:40:49

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1519 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 17:46:24

My original rudder had a definite seam between the two sides, and it looked like it was manufactured by connecting two halves that had been separately molded.

There is no trace of a seam in my new balanced rudder, and I would be surprised if it ends up splitting. When I received the new rudder the original shipment came with a damaged bottom forward corner, from which a 1" spot of both the gelcoat and the fiberglass had been chipped off during shipping. This exposed the hard gray foam underneath, and showed no evidence of 2 halves joined at a seam.

CD promptly sent a replacement that was perfect.

I think the new balanced rudder is made by a different method from the original rudder. Has anyone experienced splitting with the new, balanced rudder?

Edited by - JohnP on 03/25/2011 17:50:11

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 18:02:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Yup Dave, and a lot of those old rudders are waiting to split, leaving their sailors adrift. I know someone is out there looking at a split in theirs and praying it doesn't open up. That guy should be on the phone with Foss pronto.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm that guy everytime I head out. Original 89 and it's split pretty bad. One day I'll fork over the cash for a new one.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 20:00:19

Nauti - you don't have to. If yours is the balanced rudder you are our guy...

See if you can ship yours to them and have it be the prototype, you get a free rudder out of teh deal - but you may be out a rudder for a while.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 20:17:10

It's the standard 89 as far as I know. I didn't think they were considered "balanced". IDK, you tell me. lol How long do you think he'll have it?

Pics aren't great but maybe you can get an idea. I can upload a better pic tomorrow when I visit the boat and possibly take it home.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/Catalina/100_3617.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SharkRacer/Catalina/100_3618.jpg

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/25/2011 20:21:37

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 21:46:30

Looks like the balanced design to me. The ones that are balanced have teh little bit that tucks in under teh boat, the unbalanced ones drop straight down from teh pintles.

Give him a call and see what he has to say, I have no idea how long it takes to make a mould and the first rudder. He said your rudder would be filled adn faired, polished and used for the plug, then returned to you along with the first new rudder. Basically you will end up with your old rudder repaired adn a new one besides.

Here is teh shop drawing of the balanced rudder: www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/pictures/brudder3.gif The old design drops pretty much straight down from teh 2" step under the lower pintle, this new one has the bumpout to tuck in under the boat.

Edited by - Prospector on 03/25/2011 21:56:13

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4275 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2011 : 22:16:57

Jonathan,

Our 89's have the balanced rudder. I've never seen an '89 with a split!

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 07:21:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Looks like the balanced design to me. The ones that are balanced have teh little bit that tucks in under teh boat, the unbalanced ones drop straight down from teh pintles.

Give him a call and see what he has to say, I have no idea how long it takes to make a mould and the first rudder. He said your rudder would be filled adn faired, polished and used for the plug, then returned to you along with the first new rudder. Basically you will end up with your old rudder repaired adn a new one besides.

Here is teh shop drawing of the balanced rudder: www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/pictures/brudder3.gif The old design drops pretty much straight down from teh 2" step under the lower pintle, this new one has the bumpout to tuck in under the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sounds good to me. I'll give him a call. If I get a new one, then I don't care for the old one. It's an awesome deal.

I left a message. They're open M-T.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/26/2011 07:29:53

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 07:31:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Jonathan,

Our 89's have the balanced rudder. I've never seen an '89 with a split!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh ok, I thought to be considered "balanced", they would need to tuck under a bit more.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 09:15:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NautiC25
 Oh ok, I thought to be considered "balanced", they would need to tuck under a bit more.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nope--that's the one--I bought the same one from CD. It has two steps on the leading edge--the lower and larger one goes under the skeg. That's where the balance is. (You don't want total balance--only about 15%, so you still have some centering force, and "feel".)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/26/2011 09:15:56

40Grit
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 15:20:27

Hello All, Don just informed me that we will be building a new 25 balanced rudder mold. we had been talking about re tooling but other projects were more urgent, sounds like we have a sample rudder coming from Texas. we are looking forward to producing something solid and of better value.

Regards
Steve Brown
Finco/Foss foam
714 973 2878

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 16:27:53

I wonder if the California Foss Company is related to Foss Foam Products of Florida? The latter already sells a C25 rudder.

[url="http://newrudders.com/?page_id=6"]New Rudders Standard Rudders[/url]

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 18:13:04

That would be me. I called earlier and I'll be sending my rudder in early this week. :)

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 21:33:13

AWESOME Travis!!

You have done a great thing here for the good of teh Catalina Nation!!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 21:36:20

Steve we appreciate you checking in here - a recent thread from another manufacturer recently went south due to forum rules etc. Since I initiated contact with you, and pointed you to this thread, I hope this doesn't go the same way.

you may want to get in touch with the Assn. exec to discuss options to have your rudders listed in the deals for membership. I have no idea of what it takes a supplier to get on that list.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2011 : 21:38:39

Don, I don't know. you could call teh FLA company and find out.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2011 : 06:36:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Don, I don't know. you could call teh FLA company and find out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wow, why didn't I think of that!

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2011 : 08:45:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Don, I don't know. you could call teh FLA company and find out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hmmm... Same family name? Same products? No communication? ... Could be a hornet's nest somewhere in there...

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2011 : 09:21:12

Precisely what I was thinking Dave, and a good reason for someone other than me to make that call.

I wonder if a member of teh family took off to Fla to keep the catalina side of the business going, while another member stayed west to keep up relations with the west coast boat builders (is J boats out west? Who is?)

It could be amicable, it could be not amicable. None of my business either way. All I know is there is a manufacturer who is excited to work with our group, wants to build a quality product, and is offering to do so at a good price. I want in.

Edited by - on

40Grit
Deckhand

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USA
2 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2011 : 11:26:17

Hi guys, sorry for the confusion Finco/Foss foam is the original West Coast rudder builder. Foss Florida was to serve production builders in Florida, they are friendly competitors, who are associated by name only. they have many production molds indigenous to FLA.

Steve Brown
Finco/Foss foam California.
714 973 2878

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 16:16:51

My rudder is in the mail via FedEx and should arrive there by Friday. Don said he'll come here to talk more about the building process and materials. I'll take pics when I get the new one. Can't wait! Thanks for setting this up Chris.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/29/2011 16:27:28

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2011 : 18:52:01

Glad you scored a deal. Can't wait to hear the results!!

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