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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Winchers instead of cam, clams, cleats

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/08/2010 : 06:45:54

I thought I would continue the cam, clam, horn, cleat discussion from the other thread with a new one because it seems people either love or hate Winchers.

I installed Winchers on the boat about two years ago, they were a extreme PITA to put on. And after having them for about a year I thought they were completely useless. So in the spring, I was about to spend the big bucks on a set of self-tailers. However I decided to give the Winchers another try. I purchased some new sheets in 5/16" Dia. to replace the old sheets which were 3/8". Bingo, that was all that was needed to make them functional. When I say functional, I don't mean they will self-tail, they won't. But they will self cleat. The first photo has a slight load on the sheet and the Wincher is holding:

The second photo has the sheet wrapped in the "cleat" part of the Wincher.

The sheet has never slipped out this entire season. We have stopped cleating the sheet in the Horn cleat completely

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 06:58:58

I have self-tailers on Kaija. I love them. It's essentially 12 -14 inches of clam(?) cleat holding the sheet securely without much tension since most of the tension is on the winch. Plus, fewer holes in the fiberglass.

If I didn't have the self-tailers, I'd certainly have the winchers.

Edited by - John Russell on 12/08/2010 07:02:36

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 07:29:15

Tried 'em... They indeed are a bear to install--use soap as recommended and keep the children out of ear-shot. My sheets also were too fat (1/2"), and I didn't change 'em--just pulled the Winchers off. I wonder if I left them in a drawer for "Voyager"... (although there was an owner between us.)

They claim to self-tail, supposedly by putting enough wraps on to meet the bottom of the Wincher. That's usually more than I want.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 07:48:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">supposedly by putting enough wraps on to meet the bottom of the Wincher. That's usually more than I want.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I haven't been able to get them to self-tail with the amount of wraps in the photo. I don't think I could get any more wraps on it than that.

Also, the number of wraps in the photo has not been a problem. Once the last wrap is pulled "out of the grip" of the Wincher the line will run out fairly quickly. I think because of the smaller diameter of the sheet

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 07:50:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 I thought I would continue the cam, clam, horn, cleat discussion from the other thread with a new one because it seems people either love or hate Winchers.

I installed Winchers on the boat about two years ago, they were a extreme PITA to put on. And after having them for about a year I thought they were completely useless. So in the spring, I was about to spend the big bucks on a set of self-tailers. However I decided to give the Winchers another try. I purchased some new sheets in 5/16" Dia. to replace the old sheets which were 3/8". Bingo, that was all that was needed to make them functional. When I say functional, I don't mean they will self-tail, they won't. But they will self cleat. The first photo has a slight load on the sheet and the Wincher is holding:

The second photo has the sheet wrapped in the "cleat" part of the Wincher.

The sheet has never slipped out this entire season. We have stopped cleating the sheet in the Horn cleat completely
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We just installed a set of these on my friend's C-27 for the spin sheets. Just as you say, his current sheets are too big so we are going to try the smaller spin sheets from my boat. I'm glad I saw this as it confirms what we suspected.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 09:30:58

The guy I sailed with before buying our boat had these. Most of the time I didn't even bother with them. I wasn't much of a fan. He raved about how great they were.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 09:59:36

Most people do not know how they work, it is not intuitive, especially if you consider selftailers as a reference.

BTW I HATE selftailers. I consider them to be a huge detriment to the actual sailing of a boat under 28 feet. I never used them as selftailers on my '89, I just used the lower drum and a cleat. One caveat, if I sailed where a person held a tack for more than 30 minutes at a time I might use them.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 10:15:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One caveat, if I sailed where a person held a tack for more than 30 minutes at a time I might use them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

On some trips out, we only tack once all day

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 11:54:21

so...THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE ! ! ! ...we've got them, I thought they were some type of self tailing do-dad, but couldn't figure it out...w/ our sheets at 1/2", it doesn't work (clearly)...the boat came w/ the winchers and the PO had 1/2" sheets, so I'm guessing they were installed sometime earlier...

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Patrice C25
1st Mate

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78 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 13:58:56

Hi,
Have them to on my boat, but never really used them.
Do not make enough turn around the winch to work, as per your picture.
But usually, will make 3 turns around the winch, but when changing tack, the sheet doesn't slip, so have to remove 2 turn on the winch as we change direction....
Don,T you have issue with this...

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 18:52:46

I use them too, but not as self tailers, but as cleats. I don't use my horn cleats anymore.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 18:55:43

And I didn't have a hard time installing them; I think i put my winchers in boiling water for a moment, and after they were cool enough to handle they were still pliable enough to go over the winches without too much difficulty.

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2010 : 23:18:39

Interesting as I have had them on the winches for almost 30 years for racing and now cruising. The fast tack is made easier and they have held during knockdowns. Yes they have come loose on new crews but not the next time. My sailing on mountain lakes with sudden shifts in the wind call for quick release and the Winchers do it. No extra holes drilled is a plus and the covers keep the sun away. The original cleats factory installed are not in the best position so the Wincher solved the problem. Seems to have worked for me but sure envy the steady wind sailing with few tacks and I do self-tail then make sure the tail is at least half way around the groove of the rubber.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2010 : 11:23:19

Ya know, I might put some on my boat simply to reduce the hip bruises, winches do not move when bumped into by wenches.

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PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2010 : 14:04:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Most people do not know how they work, it is not intuitive, especially if you consider selftailers as a reference.

BTW I HATE selftailers. I consider them to be a huge detriment to the actual sailing of a boat under 28 feet. I never used them as selftailers on my '89, I just used the lower drum and a cleat. One caveat, if I sailed where a person held a tack for more than 30 minutes at a time I might use them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm used to self tailing from racing on the 27 but I do prefer my (custom?) set up on my 25. I have the same set up for my spin and my jib winches.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2010 : 16:15:21

Dave
The winchers are still on Passage's port and starboard jib sheet winches.
Until this thread, I never really noticed them, and obviously never used them.
I thought they were some kind of trim pieces.

I've been thinking of changing out the sheets and going down a bit in size, so that would allow me to use them for their rightful purpose. Right now I use the cam cleats for the jib sheets as they're just like the ones I have on my 16' Sunbird daysailer, Voyager, only they're a little smaller.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2010 : 11:26:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Dave
The winchers are still on Passage's port and starboard jib sheet winches...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Bill V. must have put them back on.

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2010 : 10:41:38

I JUST LOVE those! GOTTA do it! Love the Win7 snipping tool too

Edited by - DaveR on 12/12/2010 10:42:43

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2010 : 20:55:28

Oh-ya! Snipping tool is the best.
Beats the crap outta pressing Fn / PrtScrn and sending a bitmap to paint and trimming it.
All in one - love Win7 (of course my editor-wife says the same about Snow Leopard (apple))

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