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 anchor rode bridle
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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 11/20/2002 :  14:33:07  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage  Send Arlyn Stewart an AOL message  Send Arlyn Stewart a Yahoo! Message
I would like reduce or stop my boats sailing on the anchor rode and wonder if others use a bridle to cleat the rode to both sides of the boat and if this is helpful? If so, do you use a "bowline in a bite" to form the bridle? Or how?

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

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Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  14:43:36  Show Profile
I have two, 12' long, 3/4" nylon rodes to the chain on my swing mooring, one for each side. It does not stop the boat from sailing around at anchor. When cruising I usually anchor out and set two anchors so the rodes form a 30-45 degree angle from the bow; this does reduce the tendency to sail at anchor. The best way is to set a riding sail at the rear of the boom (a small, triangular sail set from the boom and topping lift), with the boom centered it pretty well keeps the bow into the wind.

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Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  14:43:36  Show Profile
I have two, 12' long, 3/4" nylon rodes to the chain on my swing mooring, one for each side. It does not stop the boat from sailing around at anchor. When cruising I usually anchor out and set two anchors so the rodes form a 30-45 degree angle from the bow; this does reduce the tendency to sail at anchor. The best way is to set a riding sail at the rear of the boom (a small, triangular sail set from the boom and topping lift), with the boom centered it pretty well keeps the bow into the wind.

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PZell
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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USA
532 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  15:42:09  Show Profile

Somewhere recently I saw an article where the author detailed how he set up a bridle for such a situation. The different thing about his method was that the bridle ran one end at the bow and the the other at the side (like at about the cockpit winch). I believe that side of the bridle was longer. Sorry I don't have details, but the object apparently was to put the boat in such a position that it rode consistently in one direction instead of swinging around.

Paul
C25FK Sparky



PZ
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PZell
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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USA
532 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  15:42:09  Show Profile

Somewhere recently I saw an article where the author detailed how he set up a bridle for such a situation. The different thing about his method was that the bridle ran one end at the bow and the the other at the side (like at about the cockpit winch). I believe that side of the bridle was longer. Sorry I don't have details, but the object apparently was to put the boat in such a position that it rode consistently in one direction instead of swinging around.

Paul
C25FK Sparky



PZ
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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  16:53:09  Show Profile
Arlyn,

At a previous club I was responsible for moorings and my committee responsibility included location of member moorings in the river and the standard set-up of the mooring ground tackle.

Members had an option of whether or not to have a mooring in the water. Most chose not to.

Our standard brought two mooring lines, attached to a riding chain to a swivel schackle at both ends of the mooring lines. The top most swivel schackle was connected to anoether pair of lines lines rising to the boat' cleats. One on port and the other on starboard. The total length of the system was restricted to a relatively short 55 feet from the anchor to the boat. Most final mooring lines were equal lenth, eight feet, from my standard set-up.

Boats did not seem to sail at the mooring, but this was probably because we were in a tidal river, and the currents often controled the boats direction at mooring. At slack tide different boats did swing to the new tide at different rates.

Hope this helps.



Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  16:53:09  Show Profile
Arlyn,

At a previous club I was responsible for moorings and my committee responsibility included location of member moorings in the river and the standard set-up of the mooring ground tackle.

Members had an option of whether or not to have a mooring in the water. Most chose not to.

Our standard brought two mooring lines, attached to a riding chain to a swivel schackle at both ends of the mooring lines. The top most swivel schackle was connected to anoether pair of lines lines rising to the boat' cleats. One on port and the other on starboard. The total length of the system was restricted to a relatively short 55 feet from the anchor to the boat. Most final mooring lines were equal lenth, eight feet, from my standard set-up.

Boats did not seem to sail at the mooring, but this was probably because we were in a tidal river, and the currents often controled the boats direction at mooring. At slack tide different boats did swing to the new tide at different rates.

Hope this helps.



Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  16:56:53  Show Profile
The ends of the mooring lines had eye splices in them. And we would slip the eye over the cleat to moor the boat. If I understand what you're asking, I would hesitate to put a bowline in the mooring pennents because the knot weakens the line to some extent.



Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  16:56:53  Show Profile
The ends of the mooring lines had eye splices in them. And we would slip the eye over the cleat to moor the boat. If I understand what you're asking, I would hesitate to put a bowline in the mooring pennents because the knot weakens the line to some extent.



Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  18:11:48  Show Profile  Visit luckystar's Homepage  Send luckystar an AOL message
I've always wanted a riding sail. I'm on a lake and anchor out some, but not enough to drop two anchors or deal with a roller or bridle. Where would you get one? Does westmarine sell? Is there any diagrams out there to make one?

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR
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luckystar
Navigator

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236 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  18:11:48  Show Profile  Visit luckystar's Homepage  Send luckystar an AOL message
I've always wanted a riding sail. I'm on a lake and anchor out some, but not enough to drop two anchors or deal with a roller or bridle. Where would you get one? Does westmarine sell? Is there any diagrams out there to make one?

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR
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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  19:25:29  Show Profile  Visit Douglas's Homepage
Yep a bridle is a good choice but consider this. If you run it from the bow you will still be facing into either the current or wind. Now try this. Run one end of the bridle to the bow and the other end to your sturn cleat. Cleat of the sturn then go forward and cleat of the bow with a shorter length. This will put your side of the boat at an angle to current or wind and prevent the boat from comming through the eye of the wind or current.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.
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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  19:25:29  Show Profile  Visit Douglas's Homepage
Yep a bridle is a good choice but consider this. If you run it from the bow you will still be facing into either the current or wind. Now try this. Run one end of the bridle to the bow and the other end to your sturn cleat. Cleat of the sturn then go forward and cleat of the bow with a shorter length. This will put your side of the boat at an angle to current or wind and prevent the boat from comming through the eye of the wind or current.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.
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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
930 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  19:37:54  Show Profile
quote:
Is there any diagrams out there to make one?


Here's some instructions for a kit Sailrite sells. I can't say how good they are. I started this project (without the kit) about a year ago -- only got as far as cutting out the sail cloth from an old shredded mainsail. Maybe some day I'll get further.

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/anchorridingsail.pdf

I can't remember where I saw it, but I seem to recall that the proper way to set the sail is that the front corner of the sail (the clew?) is to be set to one side, not straight back.

Edited by - RichardG on 11/20/2002 20:01:14
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RichardG
Admiral

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930 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  19:37:54  Show Profile
quote:
Is there any diagrams out there to make one?


Here's some instructions for a kit Sailrite sells. I can't say how good they are. I started this project (without the kit) about a year ago -- only got as far as cutting out the sail cloth from an old shredded mainsail. Maybe some day I'll get further.

http://www.sailrite.com/PDF/anchorridingsail.pdf

I can't remember where I saw it, but I seem to recall that the proper way to set the sail is that the front corner of the sail (the clew?) is to be set to one side, not straight back.

Edited by - RichardG on 11/20/2002 20:01:14
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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  20:47:23  Show Profile
I am not adept at sewing but remember reading a tip on riding sails in which it was stated that they are cut as flat as possible, that is without any camber at all, so as a first project for sewing this would be a good one. You could also probably use a very small storm jib set on the backstay, hoisted with halyard or topping lift, and these often turn up cheap, lots of people have one with the mildew associated with being in the bottom of the locker and never emerging, ron srsk 1981 Orion #2343 SW FL

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ronrryan
Admiral

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Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  20:47:23  Show Profile
I am not adept at sewing but remember reading a tip on riding sails in which it was stated that they are cut as flat as possible, that is without any camber at all, so as a first project for sewing this would be a good one. You could also probably use a very small storm jib set on the backstay, hoisted with halyard or topping lift, and these often turn up cheap, lots of people have one with the mildew associated with being in the bottom of the locker and never emerging, ron srsk 1981 Orion #2343 SW FL

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Ray Seitz
Captain

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Barbados
416 Posts

Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  21:15:39  Show Profile
Arlyn:
I had almost the same setup, all summer, that Charles describes with the exception that my pennant lines were around 8' long instead of 12'. If there was any reduction in sailing I couldn't notice it, even in strong winds the boat sometimes, momentarily, ended up perpendicular to the wind direction. I have seen two anchors used, with even a greater angle than 45 degrees, quite effectively

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major
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Ray Seitz
Captain

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Barbados
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Response Posted - 11/20/2002 :  21:15:39  Show Profile
Arlyn:
I had almost the same setup, all summer, that Charles describes with the exception that my pennant lines were around 8' long instead of 12'. If there was any reduction in sailing I couldn't notice it, even in strong winds the boat sometimes, momentarily, ended up perpendicular to the wind direction. I have seen two anchors used, with even a greater angle than 45 degrees, quite effectively

Ray Seitz C 250WB #628 Sea Major
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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  15:40:38  Show Profile
quote:

I have two, 12' long, 3/4" nylon rodes to the chain on my swing mooring, one for each side. It does not stop the boat from sailing around at anchor. When cruising I usually anchor out and set two anchors so the rodes form a 30-45 degree angle from the bow; this does reduce the tendency to sail at anchor. The best way is to set a riding sail at the rear of the boom (a small, triangular sail set from the boom and topping lift), with the boom centered it pretty well keeps the bow into the wind.





Charles -
Where did you get your riding sail? About how much $? Our C250 constantly rides at anchor, but I don't want to set 2 anchors. It would be nice to be able to anchor closer to friends we sail with (we usually don't since we don't lay at anchor the same way).

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253
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cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  15:40:38  Show Profile
quote:

I have two, 12' long, 3/4" nylon rodes to the chain on my swing mooring, one for each side. It does not stop the boat from sailing around at anchor. When cruising I usually anchor out and set two anchors so the rodes form a 30-45 degree angle from the bow; this does reduce the tendency to sail at anchor. The best way is to set a riding sail at the rear of the boom (a small, triangular sail set from the boom and topping lift), with the boom centered it pretty well keeps the bow into the wind.





Charles -
Where did you get your riding sail? About how much $? Our C250 constantly rides at anchor, but I don't want to set 2 anchors. It would be nice to be able to anchor closer to friends we sail with (we usually don't since we don't lay at anchor the same way).

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253
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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  18:11:19  Show Profile  Visit luckystar's Homepage  Send luckystar an AOL message
The sailrite kit is only $70ish and looks quite easy to do. When it comes up on the long list of boat wants and needs, I may just do it. I've been wanting to learn to sew some of this stuff. It's just toooooo costly to keep paying people to replace covers all the time!

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR
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luckystar
Navigator

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236 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  18:11:19  Show Profile  Visit luckystar's Homepage  Send luckystar an AOL message
The sailrite kit is only $70ish and looks quite easy to do. When it comes up on the long list of boat wants and needs, I may just do it. I've been wanting to learn to sew some of this stuff. It's just toooooo costly to keep paying people to replace covers all the time!

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR
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Tom Coleman
Deckhand

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19 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  22:37:03  Show Profile
I just had a riding sail (anchor sail) made for my boat. I sail a C250 wb and anchor frequently offshore for overnights. My boat will dance on the rode all night if there is any wind at all. I took measurements and had the sail made from Sunbrella fabric. I put it up last week to check the fit and it looks great, although I have not yet tried it out. It is basically a triangular shape (about 9' high and 6' wide) with a grommet at the head which is pulled up the backstay using the main halyard. There are four sail hanks sewn on that attach the sail to the backstay. Four more grommets on the foot of the sail allowed me to attach lengths of webbing which get tied around the mailsail cover (on the boom) to pull it down tight. To my amazement, it fits tight and should work well. I'll try to take a photo over the weekend and post it next week along with results. Cost about $120 for the fabric and fabrication. Not cheap, but it results in better sleep, it will be worth it.

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Tom Coleman
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 11/21/2002 :  22:37:03  Show Profile
I just had a riding sail (anchor sail) made for my boat. I sail a C250 wb and anchor frequently offshore for overnights. My boat will dance on the rode all night if there is any wind at all. I took measurements and had the sail made from Sunbrella fabric. I put it up last week to check the fit and it looks great, although I have not yet tried it out. It is basically a triangular shape (about 9' high and 6' wide) with a grommet at the head which is pulled up the backstay using the main halyard. There are four sail hanks sewn on that attach the sail to the backstay. Four more grommets on the foot of the sail allowed me to attach lengths of webbing which get tied around the mailsail cover (on the boom) to pull it down tight. To my amazement, it fits tight and should work well. I'll try to take a photo over the weekend and post it next week along with results. Cost about $120 for the fabric and fabrication. Not cheap, but it results in better sleep, it will be worth it.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2944 Posts

Response Posted - 11/22/2002 :  13:34:14  Show Profile  Visit Arlyn Stewart's Homepage  Send Arlyn Stewart an AOL message  Send Arlyn Stewart a Yahoo! Message
Thanks all for the input... I very often set two anchors... and when done, that stops the sailing on the anchor rode. There are of course times when thats not an option.

I will try a shorter bridal just in front of the bow and will post results after a variety of winds are experienced.

If that doesn't work...I may join the rest of you with a riding sail.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
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