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 Confusion over make of boat? Newbie here
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/31/2008 :  10:53:48  Show Profile
I answered an ad for a 1975 Catalina 25. Went to see the boat, and love it. It is in great shape and the price is right. In looking at pictures on the net below deck of similar boats, the layout does not seem the same. We got the hull ID, which begins with "CAB," and that does not seem right, either, since it ought to be a "CTY" for Catalina. The sails have the letter "C" with a number 25 inside the C, like a Cal-25. The title says it is a Catalina.

In looking at pictures on the net, it matches up with pictures of C-25, but I don't know enough about manufacturers to know if a C-25 is a Catalina, or if it is a different manufacturer. The "CAB" manufacturer ID has thrown us.

Stella

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  11:00:21  Show Profile
can you post pictures or a link to the seller's pictures?
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Stellaluna
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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  11:07:40  Show Profile
I will have to get some pics next time I see the boat, if we decide to have it hauled to inspect the hull - it is a Craig's List boat without pics.

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  11:13:11  Show Profile
You can find the manufacturer's ID database online at:

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic_database.htm

A lot of things don't add up. The "CAB" designation refers to a manufacturer of jon boats, not sailboats. I don't believe the Catalina 25 was in production in 1975. The logo on the sail doesn't resemble a Catalina logo. I'd get the complete Hull ID number and ask the state registrar to do a search of the chain of title. They'll probably do it for a small fee. It might be a good deal, or it might be a problem that you should avoid.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C&C 35 Landfall
Past Commodore
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  11:25:09  Show Profile
What's more, the hull ID indicates it was manufactured in 1973 (last 4 digits 1073). The guy admitted that he might be wrong about the year and would need to check the title, so it could be a 1974 model made in late 73, maybe?

When I did a search on the "CAB" id, as you say, it comes up as a performance bass boat manufacturer, but there was a caveat that it could indicate a boat made by O'Day or Cal.

We love the boat but have some obvious concerns, so I will take your advice and do a title search before proceeding. I don't want to get mixed up in anything shady...

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Sloop Smitten
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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  11:25:36  Show Profile
Sounds like a CAL 25.
Check it out:
http://www.cal25.com/


Joe Wergers
Utopia
Fleet 7/Oceanside, CA
78 C25 FK/SR #381
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  12:49:20  Show Profile
Does it have a flush deck (full-width cabin with no side-decks, flat to the bow)?



If so, it's likely a Cal 25... although they were only made from '65 to '72 according to their association.

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/31/2008 12:55:20
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  13:05:50  Show Profile
Yes, flush deck with a hatch. The more I look into it, the more it makes me wonder if the hull ID has been tampered with.

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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frog0911
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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  15:17:59  Show Profile
If my memory is still working, one of our association members own's and still sails hull #1 made in 1977. Wrong, bad memory, hull #1 made in 1976, named Confetti.

Frog and The General

C250, Pretty Penny II, #743
FLEET 25
Coronado 15, M-Cube, #3316

Edited by - frog0911 on 07/31/2008 15:30:17
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  15:30:41  Show Profile
DH and I have pretty much decided to keep away from this one, though it pains us to pass up a great deal on a very nice boat that I know we would enjoy. There are just too many head-scratchers going on with this boat, including its somewhat hidden location in a marina without any other sailboats, miles up a river in an industrial area. Hmmmmmm

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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piseas
Treasurer

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2016 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  16:44:59  Show Profile  Visit piseas's Homepage  Send piseas a Yahoo! Message
Stop, go with your instincts. If it smells fishy, run, dont walk away and dont look back. Its only a good deal if its the real thing and this does not sound like the real thing. Dont beat your self(which you would if you bought it) over this, it is not worth it.
One of the first Catalina's I looked at and was gonna buy (but didnt) turned out a bad deal due to hidden damage I found out about after I paid for a bottom cleaning.
On something like this, use your head not your emotions.
Steve A

Previous Owner
PiSeas II
2003 C250 WK #692
Newport Beach, CA

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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  16:58:43  Show Profile
This comes on the heels of (almost) purchasing a MacGregor that looked great, but we wanted to haul it first to examine the bottom. Lo and behold, NO KEEL in place, and the bottom was completely eaten up with cancer all over.

It is daunting, or maybe not so unexpected for boats in our price range, but at least we have had the sense to check these things out before plunking down our precious cash. We have definitely been following our instincts and we continue to be boatless, but I am sure patience will pay off. This is not the kind of thing you rush!

I really appreciate the advice given here for a boat that is probably not even a Catalina! Thanks, all.

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Champipple
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Response Posted - 07/31/2008 :  22:26:44  Show Profile  Visit Champipple's Homepage  Send Champipple an AOL message
quote:
Originally posted by Stellaluna

a MacGregor that looked great,


I'd highly recommend in the future you when you look at boats that you are sober

D. Wolff
DPO C25 Hull 401
Currently Sailing "Champagne and Ripple" 1982 O'day 30


Chief Measurer 2002-2006
Vice-commodore 2007
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 :  12:51:02  Show Profile
Over the years, many of us have recommended to prospective buyers on this forum to have a boat surveyed before closing the deal. For a C-25 in most locations, it works out to around $350, which many (me included) feel was the best $350 they spent on the boat--even the one they didn't buy (because of the survey). The benefits include:
  • Knowing (for the most part) that there are no serious issues that would make you wish you hadn't bought the boat.
  • Having some less serious items that can be used to negotiate the price down from the initial deal.
  • Having a prioritized list of things that should be attended to--immediately or later.
  • Some insurers require a survey for boats over 10 year old, so doing it before buying gives you the other benefits above.
Example: On a C-25, one of the potential, more serious issues is rotten plywood coring between the deck, cabintop, or cockpit sole and the liner. The surveyor's moisture meter picks it up, and he can tell you the degree and size of the affected area. He can probably also point to a piece of hardware, that if rebedded, will resolve the problem, and whether the core will be satisfactory upon drying out. Similarly, with a ball-peen hammer, his trained ear can detect delamination in the hull, and areas that may have been repaired after a hard grounding. These are all things you want to know about before laying down even just a few thousand... No matter how cheap, you don't want a boat you'll never be able to get rid of except with a chainsaw!

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/01/2008 12:56:58
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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 :  20:28:27  Show Profile
Agreed, we paid $275 for a survey and it was really well spent!

Jerry
Whisper
C-25, #1672,'80, SR/SK
S. Jamesport, NY
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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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2847 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2008 :  22:44:18  Show Profile
Dave - When I bought Passage, I did not get the survey because I thought Bill Van A had. I believe he only owned it for 9-12 months before reselling it.

So far, Passage is hanging in there in spite of some pretty rough weather and waves lately (but that's another story).

I do have a leak in one of the stanchions, which will require rebedding soon, but for now my boom tent has got it covered.

When I first got her, had I wanted to ensure the boat for more than $12K replacement value, I would have had to redo the survey, so I skipped it.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032


clickez vous
Stratford & Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/01/2008 22:47:04
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 :  10:36:38  Show Profile
Bruce... Bill didn't survey her--he and Amy stood on the deck, looked around, and wrote me a check on the spot. The only contingency was that I sail her down to Westbrook, and they'd take her the rest of the way.

BTW, I doubt he survey would support your desire for a higher replacement value.

Holy crap! I hope you're not on the boat right now--there's a monsoon headed your way!

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 :  14:23:39  Show Profile
Update: We scrapped the idea of the Cal-25 and today we looked at a very well-maintained, clean and ready to sail 78 Catalina 25 for the same (cheap) price of the Cal-25, but in much nicer shape - we won't need to do anything to it until the end of the season bottom painting that it is due for.

It has a whole lot more room for us and the kids, and the flexibility of a swing keel and steppable mast. I am very excited about this boat, but we'll short haul it just to inspect the hull first.

I can see why these boats are so popular. Plus, it looks like finding parts and sails for it is going to be much easier than it would have been for the Cal.

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 :  14:38:28  Show Profile
Welcome to the community (we presume)! If you're short-hauling, give the survey some thought... Don't be surprised or dismayed to find some rust spots on the cast iron keel--that's normal. Do find out when the keel cable and attachments were last replaced--that's a periodic maintence item (the period depending on your use and type of water).

Then a couple of other worthwhile steps:

1. Join the association--it's a wonderful resource, as you've begun to see.

2. Order a C-25 Owner's Handbook from Catalina Direct--a third-party supplier of parts and upgrades primarily for the C-22, C-25, C-30. They know our boats well. It's essentially their catalog, but also full of tips and ideas. They send updates (including to their prices) every year. Most but not all items are also on their site.

Good luck with your find!

Association Port Captain, Mystic, CT
Past member and DPO of C-25 #5032
Now on Eastern 27 Sarge (but still sailing) and posting as "Stinkpotter".

Passage, Mystic, and Sarge--click to enlarge.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/02/2008 14:42:52
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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/02/2008 :  22:02:45  Show Profile
Good luck, Stellaluna!

Where are you?

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 :  07:50:44  Show Profile
I am in Richmond, VA, but we have been doing our boating in Mojack Bay (off the Chesapeake) and will have this boat in a slip in the Northern Neck of VA, near the Potomac.

This boat has been surveyed recently, but we still have to meet with the owner and see exactly when that was done, and go from there. I appreciate the tips, Dave. DH is pretty experienced and knows what to look for, but it has been 10 years since we've had a boat, and it is very helpful to have this resource. Helping FIL work on his 46' Morgan back then would have gone a lot easier with a helpful online community!

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 :  07:59:00  Show Profile
Another Update: Regarding the Cal-25, it turns out that the hull ID is correct - in that year of confusion (1973) manufacturers were new to the Hull ID system and "CAB" was being used by several manufacturers, including Cal. There are apparently no issues with this boat, and the guy had misread the title. It very clearly stated it was a Cal-25 and the year was correct - he thought Cal was short for Catalina, and he misread the date! I just wanted to clear this up. I'm glad we found the Catalina, since it is in much better condition for the same money, but I did not like to cast a suspicious cloud over this Cal-25 that I know someone will enjoy. Sailors are not suspicious, right......???

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054
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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 :  17:44:57  Show Profile
Liz, I live in Richmond, but keep our boat in Urbanna. If you want to chat, let me know.

Brooke Willson
Deltaville, Virginia
Catalina 25 SKTR # 5050
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Stellaluna
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 :  18:46:07  Show Profile
Thanks, Brooke - we have found a marina in Kinsale (am falling in love with that town) that has extremely inexpensive slips so once we actually get our boat we will be, hopefully, sailing it up there. This is all contingent on the hull inspection, etc., but I am optimistic so far.

I will likely get in touch with you once we are actually in the water and I am sure you will have some helpful advice - I know Mobjack but have not navigated other waterways in Virginia. All of the other sailing I have done has been in South Florida and Bimini.

If we do get this boat, I will certainly be posting about it here!

Liz
Richmond, VA

Sea Monkey
82 SK/SR #3054

Edited by - Stellaluna on 08/03/2008 21:52:05
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