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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel Winch Corrosion

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2008 : 06:24:31

So, I'm about to replace my keel winch for the second time because of corrosion caused by salt water on the drum. Yes, I know swing keels are not supposed to be used in salt water according to the manual -- maybe the REAL reason was the winch corrosion, not corrosion on the keel or hanger hardware. Have you other salty swingers had this problem, and found a solution for it?

I'm wondering, for example -- a very liberal coating of Rustoleum on the drum -- some sort of plastic/vinyl sleeve -- attaching a funnel to the top of the pendant hose so I can rinse off the cable after sailing?

OR -- is THIS the reason to leave the keel down most of the time?

OR -- could this be an electrolysis issue? Do you salty swingers with zincs avoid this problem?

Brooke Willson
Deltaville, Virginia
Catalina 25 SKTR # 5050

Edited by - Even Chance on 07/23/2008 06:25:20

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 07:27:49

I wondered the same thing after finding corrosion within months on my new winch I installed last summer. I think the Rustoleum would probably just get ground off with the wire rubbing on it. The idea of a plastic/vinyl sleeve on the drum where the wire rests might be a good idea. What about putting a few wraps of duct tape on the drum where the wire wraps around. For more protection, go ahead and paint the whole thing with Rustoleum, then put the duct tape where the wire would rub it off. Anyone think that might work?

Leaving the keel down might help, but unless you put a sponge/rag in the hose, you'll probably still get a little corrosion when getting the water shooting up during reverse motoring. I have to pull my keel up for my shallow slip, so I don't have the option.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 09:04:43

Get some a spray can of 'Dupli-color' truck bed liner ($9). Clean and prime the metal and spray this stuff on. It works better than anything else I've found at protecting steel around salt water. Pretty tough stuff.

Let it harden for a couple days before putting the cable on.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 09:47:28

Clam,
That sounds like a great idea and would look better and last longer than duct tape I bet. I'm sure we would just have to be careful about getting the spray on the gears, bearings, and brakes. So have you been doing this? Any tips to get good coverage but not on those critical parts?
I want to avoid this happening again, the original from my boat:

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 11:03:44

GEEZ - that's pretty scary...Whisper has been in salt water all of her 28 years, I think it's the original winch but am not positive...I inspected it last season while changing the lift cable and the drum seemed OK...also painted w/ rustoleum then and this year it looks like I never touched it.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 15:16:40

I am in saltwater half the year and fresh for the other half and my winch looks fine. The way you stated your query makes it sound like you don't have zincs on the keel - very bad move. If you don't have zincs, you need to pull the boat so you can drill and tap the keel for zincs. Do it very soon or you may become a very unhappy ex-sailor. The cast iron drills pretty easily with titanium oxide bits and cutting oil, and tapping is not difficult. Put a teardrop zinc on each side near the pivot. If you are paranoid, put one near the cable attachment. Do it soon or the winch won't be the issue.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 15:38:50

Well, the boat has lived 23 years, mostly year-round, in salt water without zincs and the only problem -- if it is related -- is the keel winch. It appears to me the problem is corrosion, not electrolysis. But I'm open to other possibilities.

Edited by - Even Chance on 07/23/2008 15:43:31

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 16:14:33

No zincs for us either...I've considered them, but Whisper has never had them...

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 16:39:56

Wow,, the salt does alot of damage as presented in the photo.

May sound silly, but I'd be tempted to not only prevent the rust by using some heavy duty fixative etc.. but also in designing a tray that can wrap around the hose and under the keel so I could, at a minimum, rinse the keel cable/winch with fresh water to remove the salt residue.....or

Get a fixed keel boat.

Dave's idea is one to follow for sure with salt water boats.

Text from the Catalina Direct Site:

The combination of cast iron, silicone bronze, naval brass and stainless steel used on a retractable keel boat is a virtual battery just waiting to be damaged by galvanic corrosion. Zinc, being the least noble of any of the metals used under water on your retractable keel boat, corrodes first thereby protecting all the other metals.

To install, just drill a hole through the "skinny" part of the keel near the trailing edge. Through bolt being sure you have made electrical contact with the keel and you're done for the season. Replace once a year. Mandatory on boat moored in salt water.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2008 : 20:07:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Deric
 
Text from the Catalina Direct Site:

The combination of cast iron, silicone bronze, naval brass and stainless steel used on a retractable keel boat is a virtual battery just waiting to be damaged by galvanic corrosion. Zinc, being the least noble of any of the metals used under water on your retractable keel boat, corrodes first thereby protecting all the other metals.

To install, just drill a hole through the "skinny" part of the keel near the trailing edge. Through bolt being sure you have made electrical contact with the keel and you're done for the season. Replace once a year. Mandatory on boat moored in salt water.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, I know that's the theory. There are different opinions in the archives about this, as well as from my former marina owner -- an America's Cup sailor -- who insists that zincs aren't necessary on my boat. There's no evidence of electrolysis on "Even Chance" where one would predict -- where cast iron keel, silicon bronze keel hangers and pivot pin, and stainless steel bolts meet, or on the keel pendant and hardware. My winch looks like Justin's -- and that looks like corrosion, not electrolysis, to me. On the other hand, the winch is probably zinc plated, or is the least noble of all the metals connected to the keel system . . .

So I may get the yard to lift the boat long enough to put anodes on the keel and see if they make any difference to the winch. As for the keel falling off or other apocalyptic predictions of life without anodes . . . it just ain't so.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 08:48:02

Some on this site might disagree with you about keel falling - it is cable system failure, not the pivot, so a raised keel can fall, but usually not off. The presence of a positive charge enhances all corrosion by the available oxidizer, not just metal loss. It may be be that the winch is the least noble and has good oxygen and electrolyte exposure, but an annual $6 zinc is a lot cheaper than a winch.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 14:39:39

I think it bears mention that a boat living out of the water is going to show much less corrosion than one that lives in the water, especially salt water. Also boats living on dry land that are washed down meticulously with fresh water after each salty foray will fare considerably better.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 17:51:03

Stardog,

You are correct about washing down the boat with fresh water so as to get the salt off the boat. The same logic applies for us New Yorkers when maintaining our cars. NYS puts alto of salt on the roads during the winter months. Rinsing the salt off the car is best to keep it from rusting sooner rather than later.

Back to the subject of the rusty winch, if the keel is raised and the cable wound, I'd be tempted to rinse the winch often with fresh water as part of maintenance, and add the zinc.

Salt is a killer.

I wish Brooke the best in overcoming this challenge.

Deric

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3754 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2008 : 23:14:11

I was reading back through this thread, and I would like to point out that Catalina recommended putting the zinc near the pivot, not near the trailing edge. I think that is to insure that it is always submerged and exposed to fresh water. I think it unlikely, but water in the trunk might not be refreshed adequately while the boat is secured.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2008 : 07:46:56

I am wondering if there may be a way to convert this stainless version to the C25.
http://www.atafa.com/sports/products/STAINLESS_STEEL_WINCH_L-159420.html

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2008 : 08:56:52

"I am wondering if there may be a way to convert this stainless version to the C25."

IMHO: Gotta have the brake style... or some other design that won't runaway going down if you lose control of the handle... like a worm drive.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2008 : 23:02:28

Considering the weight of the keel, I'd stick with the winch designed for the boat. Perhaps your crew could use a long-necked watering can and rinse the cable with a thin stream of water while it is coming up the tube when you raise the keel?

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 : 09:56:08

If you do consider watering down the cable while pulling the cable up, think about getting a garden 2 gallon sprayer, take the nozzle off use that to hose the cable down. The sprayer is easy to manage. I use one to hose off the deck, and areas where I need to control the flow of water.

Deric

Edited by - on

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