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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Open Wire Steering Conversion

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/12/2008 : 22:56:13

We have been sailing quite a lot this season and I have come to see the shortcomings of the first generation wheel steering mechanism - the push/pull model from Edson. The wheel turn from stop-to-stop is just one turn which means that fine steering is difficult. This also makes for tougher going for the Autohelm. The steering also does not feel as "smooth" as I want.

Here is the single cable push/pull mechanism.

Looking up the pedestal. That wire will need to get re-routed.

So, what to do? Easy, I am buying one of Arlyn's open cable steering conversion kits. It looks to be a very well engineered and built piece of equipment and I am looking forward to this project. I'll post the project as it develops.

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/30/2008 19:32:10

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 17:13:48

Arlyn has a nice kit , at a great price !

Look forward to hearing about it .

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2008 : 19:54:04

Since I have a tiller model, I've never paid much attention to these threads, what does Arlyn's kit do for you? Can you post a link to it?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2008 : 11:44:53

David, the two main things I hope to achieve are smoother wheel action and greater turning ratio. Right now to go from full port to full starboard is one turn of the wheel. Not one turn each way - one turn total. This means that fine adjustments are difficult and I tend to be making a lot of back/forth corrections. This is tougher for the Autohelm too. Arlyn's open cable system has 2 1/2 turns from port to starboard.

A good description of the project with photos. Note that Sterngucker has the newer pull/pull system (2nd generation). I have the push/pull system (1st generation).
[url="http://www.c-angel.com/Upgrades/Upgrades_steering.htm"]Sterngucker[/url]

A happy customer's testimony.
[url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=5616&SearchTerms=wheel,conversion"]Top Ten[/url]

Arlyn's page that explains it all. Look at the linked pages too.
[url="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/steeringkit.html"]Open Cable Conversion[/url]

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/15/2008 11:53:03

MartinJW
Navigator

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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 12:12:42

We have the latest Edson wheel steering in our 2008 C-250, but we haven't actually had it in the water, yet. My current criteria for a sailboat are: #1 safety, #2 convenience, #3 comfort, #4 performance.

So, I'm concerned about some of the issues that Arlyn raises about potential problems with the wheel steering:

"<i>With reports of bent brackets, failing eye bolts, remaining torque issues, excess play and chains jumping the sprocket it now seems that owners of both Edson systems using flexible cables can benefit from the open wire conversion for both safety and better helm control.</i>" (from Arlyn's Web page)

Has anyone here had these sorts of problems with newer C-250 wheel steering?

THANKS!

Martin

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 14:05:32

the original edson setup is safe ,and if anything broke the emergency tiler should be able to handle it .

but the helm has drag , so you have to use more than one finger too stear .

Arlyns kit looks like you could stear with only one finger , sounds good to me !

The only thing with Arlyns kit is if the cables somehow loosen up they could come off the pully ?
I havent seen the kit first hand or ask Arlyn about it .
but the material alone looks like it would cost for what he sells them for .
He does a good job at helping people out . his site is very informative

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 19:39:16

Well, the kit has arrived! Not surprisingly from an Arlyn kit, all the pieces are there along with good directions, diagrams and photos. My first task is to assemble the main components - the Steering Conversion Unit, and the Pedestal Sheave Assembly. I also need to go measure my existing steering arm to make certain it is the 13.75" version and not the original 11.75" version. Arlyn says most boats have been upgraded. If the original shorter version is installed I will need to order the longer replacement from Edson to ensure a good fit.

First step in assembly will be to file off burs where holes have been drilled in the aluminum components. Then it is kit building time.

Here are all of the parts.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2008 : 20:57:22

Keep em coming Randy (pics)

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2008 : 23:50:01

OK I started building the kit today. I will post photos of each step to assist those who are visual learners such as myself. Arlyn has done a nice job with the written directions.

First up is to assemble the "Steering Conversion Unit." First, mount two 4" sheaves to their "pads."

Then attach the two sets of sheaves/pads to the main frame.

Then mount the other two 4" sheaves to the "Cable Tensioner Section" and its larger pad.

Then mount this pad to the mainframe after first attaching two long bolts to the main frame. Note that I have modded the kit to include aluminum spacers that fit inside the frame and help stop any bending that may occur as you tighten the nuts on the long bolts. The bolts will later serve as a means to adjust the tightness of the steering cable by moving the "Cable Tensioner Section" up/down the bolts.

Here is the completed mainframe. Took about 90 minutes to complete.

Next step is to build the "Pedestal Sheave Assembly."

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2008 : 18:51:29

OK, not a lot of time to do projects today but the "Pedestal Sheave Assembly" should not take long. Basically, you just need to thread a bolt through the aluminum frame and two 3" sheaves.

Turns out that, when assembled, one of the sheaves touches the frame. That will not do so I gave it a quick file with a rasp.

Then the unit quickly went together and spins freely. This assembly will guide the wires coming down from the pedestal through a 90 degree turn and towards the main frame.

Assembling this piece took 15 minutes including the quick file.

Tomorrow I will assemble the "Clevis Pin Assembly." That is the last bit of work that can be done away from the boat. Then it is time to remove the old steering mechanism and install the Open Wire Conversion.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/02/2008 18:53:07

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2008 : 20:06:17

Just in case... great report Randy.... keep em coming!
Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2008 : 18:39:56

Today I assembled the "Clevis Pin Assembly." Basically two milled aluminum pieces that are attached with bolts and spacers and which house two thimbles for the wires. This assembly is the finish point for the wires coming from the wheel and the clevis pin will attach this assembly to the steering arm to turn the rudder. Time to assemble was 10 minutes.

It will be a few days until I post more progress. My daughter is in town and I don't want to have the boat unable to sail while she is here. Next week we'll put all of this gear on to the boat!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/03/2008 18:42:38

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2008 : 23:30:00

Installation is completed!

First up was to remove the old steering system. I disconnected the sytem from the rudder arm first. Then I opened the steering pedestal. Remove the four bolts you see in the photo and pull the old system up and out. When you see where the chain attaches to the internal mechanism, remove the chain by removing the quick link at each end. The whole unit will then pull up out of the pedestal.

Next I removed 7 links (8.5 inches) of chain and attached the new steering cables to each end.

Next I mounted the main frame of the steering system. Here is how the bolts look in the fuel locker.

After running the cables through the sheaves here is the completed system:

All buttoned up:

The kit comes together quite well. Precision is important as there is little leeway for chain length and main frame placement. As a final step I greased all of the cables.

In the slip the steering seems great and the range of the wheel is now 2 1/2 full turns from port to starboard - instead of the 1 turn with the stock system. The full range is very smooth.

Tomorrow is the <s>sea</s> lake trials so more after that!

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2008 : 15:13:27

Nice work Randy. Arlyn's kit looks like it goes together nicely. Did you seal/caulk the bolts in the fuel locker when you installed? If so, what product did you use.

My concern is a fuel spill working its way down to the battary/electrical area of the boat.

Edited by - welshoff on 07/14/2008 15:16:06

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2008 : 15:32:07

I used 4200 to caulk/seal the holes. Now I need to come up with a cover for the bolt heads so they don't wear away at the plastic tank. I stuffed rags on them for now. I have the Tempo 6 gallon tank and it fills the whole space. So, I need a board or something to raise the level of the rest of the sole so that the tank is level and not resting on those bolt heads.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2008 : 15:42:24

Randy, try one of those swim floats in the bottom of the tank. The kind that are flexible foam (sealed foam?) available from wallysmart et.al. We got one that just fits nicely without cutting.

The advantage is that you can just lift it out!

I use one so that I can keep stuff under the tank, makes it easy to lift the tank out on the water.

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2008 : 14:45:44

Paul, I will try the swim float. Nice idea.

We did our lake test last night. The wind kicked up to 17MPH which provided a very good test. The impact on handling weather helm is very impressive. We sailed close to the wind with one hand on the wheel. Very positive. We also got the full 2 1/2 turns (vs 1 on the original) port-to-starboard so there is much more precision. Overall we are very pleased and glad to have made the change.

We have one glitch that we need to resolve. With the rudder under load (not at the slip or in light wind), the clevis pin will get stuck in the rudder arm channel and then loosen and spring forward or aft and inch or two. This make a thunking sound which first clued me into it. Steering did not seem impacted. I have an e-mail in to Arlyn for his thoughts. I think I may need to file the channel smoother to facilitate the sliding of the clevis pin.

This points out another benefit of the project. I now fully understand - and have installed - every inch of the steering system. That had been the one boat system I had not grappled with and now I feel confident to work on it.

I recommend the conversion, especially for those with the pre-2000 push/pull system.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/15/2008 19:14:00

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2008 : 20:17:01

Randy, three things come to mind if the clevis pin is not tracking correctly in the slot. The 1st as you imply, the pin might be hanging on a milling chatter. I've not experienced this or had any comments relating it to be an issue.

The 2nd possibility is that the cable is not tensioned enough. It should be firm enough that one cannot deflect the cable by pulling on it with a single finger.

The 3rd is that the pin, slot and extension arm where the clevis contacts must be well greased.

Let me know what you find...

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 07/16/2008 20:18:40

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2008 : 22:15:14

I have wrapped up the open wire steering project. Here are the final steps I took.

Arlyn pointed out that the likely issue with my clevis assembly getting stuck was that the rudder extention arm was not "in plane" or level with the clevis assemble. He was right. It was way too low and at a slight angle. I fixed this by adding some washers (4 in back, 5 in front) that leveled the arm and put it exactly in plane with the clevis assembly. This shows the extent to which different years of C250's have differing setups.

The above photo shows two things that still bothered me. One is the protruding heads of the carriage bolts. They provided a place where the clevis assembly could make contact. I modded the bolts by dremeling off the hex end below the dome and then cutting off a piece of the dome.

The result provides more room between moving components as you can see in the next photo. This photo also shows the new clevis pin. I felt that the original, with many holes (see first photo this post) presented a less then ideal smooth face. The new solid SS clevis pin does provide a smoother surface to the slot in the rudder extension arm.

I also used a short clevis pin that I fed from the top and then used a large cotter at the bottom. This means that if the system ever fails (jams at the pedestal gear, or ?) I can quickly pull the cotter and push the pin up and out of the slot. Then the system is totally disconnected and the emergency tiller can be deployed.

I am completely happy with the system. We were out today in strong winds (20MPH, Gusts 26MPH, broke 2 sail slugs!)and the steering was effortless. Really, holding off weatherhelm with two fingers on the wheel. A great improvement and a tribute to the versatility of Arlyn's system.

Edited by - on

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