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Hard Link v 4.0

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britinusa
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Initially Posted - 10/29/2007 : 07:29:40

After watching the development of the soft line -> tough link -> hard link on the forum, I decided to go with a version similar to David and Steve.

Despite the view in picture #4, on land it shows no signs of being susceptible to to geometric locking and travel of the rudder is the same with it connected and disconnected. I put pressure on the stbd side of the engine to move it to port, but the wheel had no issues counteracting that force.

I would like to say that it was deliberate design that the connecting tube length allows the stowed tube to 'clip' onto the top of the rudder beam, but it was a fluke, but very nice!

The engine bracket is secured by two screws through the flange on the back of the engine. I covered the engine bracket with tape then padded the bracket with resin putty so that there is no metal to metal contact and it also makes it a pretty solid fitting.
Then removed the bracket and tape, cleaned it up and had a nice snug fit. The flange is not a right angle so the bracket would tend to put point pressure on the flange. The putty spreads the load.

I also added putty under the flange, the underside of the flange has some strengthening shaping and the nuts would be up against an angle. The putty spreads the load again.

Sitting on the fuel locker, I could easily reach the ring pull of the spring loaded clevis pin both for removal and insertion.

I'll be securing the bushings in place with the resin putty, cleaning it all up and then spray painting it ready for sea trials 2nd week of November.

<center>1

</center>

Joint Decision. (Sold)
PO C250WB 2005 Sail # 841.

Moved up to C34 Eximius

Updated August 2015

Edited by - britinusa on 10/29/2007 23:17:25

Steve Blackburn
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Response Posted - 10/29/2007 : 20:17:06

VERY NICE PAUL! Are we at v4.0 already?!

1. Why did you put the rudder extension arm on the port side?

2. You put the quick disconnect on the engine side? Wouldn't it be better to put it on the rudder connection point? Once disconnected and the engine raised, you can set the square link with the engine. Rudder is cleaner this way.

3. Why do you guys paint it?

4. How does that clevis pin work? You just pull on it and it releases? You got all of that at ACE hardware?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 10/29/2007 20:22:54

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/29/2007 : 23:15:56

Steve;
1) It really didn't make any difference which side of the rudder the beam is attached except that when the rudder is hard to stbd, the rudder is really close to the mast support tube which we leave in place when sailing (one day I'll be able to drop the mast on the water.)

2) The 'tough link' disconnected at the engine and the connecting tube was able to flip back along the rudder beam. It was an easy stow, so I duplicated that in this version. Purely by chance, the connecting tube is exactly the right length to allow it to lay along the rudder beam when stowed. It's very neat! I have to pull the pin up to unstow it!

3) It's aluminium.

4) Yep. & Yep. (except for the two part resin putty which I purchased 2 years ago and have kept in a zip loc bag, only used about 1.5" of it so far.)

Would someone post the best process to paint it please. I'm guessing some kind of primer followed by a spray gloss enamel top coat or two. ???? (time for a google.)

Paul

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2007 : 23:45:34

Why do you have to paint aluminum?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:03:13

Steve, thanks! You made me think about that! I saw the great paint job that David did on his and really liked it. Didn't like the prospect of trying to get a great finish as he did though.

So overnight I thought about it and decided that Jon Boats are often bare aluminium so I should be ok leaving it nude.

The admiral agreed, so I'm going to polish it! Make it look purdy & shiny.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 08:49:59

Steve,
I painted mine mostly to make it pretty, however I was also concerned about UV exposure of the epoxy putty. Rita likes blue for all of the stuff on the boat, so I dug out a can of Krylon spray enamel & put a few coats on. I didn't go to any great length to get a great finish, I just hung the pieces from my "painting tree" and sprayed away. Paul's right though, aluminum corrodes slightly and forms a nice protective coat for itself. There's really no reason to paint it except from aesthetic points of view.

Paul, how are you dealing with the angle between your connecting rod & the two attachment points? That looks like a candidate for wear, even with your bronze bushings. I made my tubes in a stepped configuration to accommodate the angle, so it's nearly straight across.

As far as which side to mount the extension arm on, I deliberately chose the near side to reduce flexing of the arm by pushing into the "L" instead of pulling against it. At least that's how the logic ran in my head. I'm not a mechanical engineer, so it was just a eyeball judgment. It probably doesn't make that much difference. I think it's over engineered enough that I don't have to worry about it too much. I had to reverse the bolts on my rudder strap to make it work, but that wasn't a big deal. I did put larger washers on though to help spread the load.

My connecting arm pins behind my engine similar to how Paul's pins alongside his rudder. That's where I keep my extra spring clip. I still like the push button retaining pins better, but I'd need 1/2" ones.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/30/2007 09:10:22

britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:47:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> but I'd need 1/2" ones.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I think ACE has them

David, I had replaced one of the rudder bolts when i installed my prototype wooden rudder beam. Now the bolt is toooo long and I'll replace it.

I figure if I polish the whole thing, then I can always paint it later.

The beams and tube are suprisingly level. At the engine bracket end, the level is off a bit. I reamed the bushing to allow for it. I expect any wear in the bronze bushing will actually improve the connection. I might grind it down after fixing the bushes in place with the putty (what is the correct name for that stuff? wish I could get it in either black, bronze or aluminium colors!)

Paul.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 11:41:51

Well, don't be disappointed when it oxidizes almost immediately after you polish it and it's dull again. Unless you cover the metal somehow, it's going to oxidize back to a dull finish and your polishing will have been wasted. You could varnish it, or coat with polyurethane to keep the shiny look.

I just call it epoxy putty, I've seen different colors but they all seem to end up a seafoam green or off-white when mixed. JB Weld is a nice black color, but it's more of a thick paste than a putty. Nice & strong though.

The off axis view must be the camera angle.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 14:19:43

Paul, nice job!

In photo #3 it looks like the bars are in a grid-lock position. Is that just an optical illusion?

Do you use the same principle as Steve - that the length of the rudder arm (rudder pivot point to end of arm) is the same as the length from the outboard pivot point to the outboard hard-link connection point?

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/30/2007 14:39:05

Steve Blackburn
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1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 17:07:23

Ok, I thought I needed to paint mine.

Another thing to consider is to file down those sharp edges of the rudder extention. You can hurt yourself pretty badly on those. Especially when going up and down the swim ladder. I have a nice deep scar on my right arm to prove it!

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 17:21:39

I concur with that, I rounded all mine off with a disk sander before I put the whole thing together. Makes it look more custom anyway.

Must be nice to be able to swim around your boat...

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 19:34:53

Randy, the pic(3) does make it look like an issue. However if you look carefully you'll see that the direction of push (with the rudder moving from hard-a-port) is directed aft of the engine rotation centerline (now that really describes it well

) If the tube was pointing fwd of the engine pivot point, then it would be a geometric lockup. I was able to push on the engine from stbd while peggy turned the wheel from hard-a-port and she was easily overcoming my efforts to prevent it.

Yep, have to soften up all those edges! It also occurred to me to mount a flag on the end of the rudder beam to ward off soft heads

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 20:00:44

All of the links that have thus far been posted have the motor mounted directly on the transom. Has anyone put one on a movable motor mount?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 21:11:21

John, there should be no issue with doing that as long as you can reach the reconnect pin with the engine that further away from the cockpit.

It that turned out to be an issue, then an alternative method of making the connection: Such as the one about putting the connect pin on the rudder end of the tube. But an alternative could be a spring clip that clamped over the engine beam with a retention pip (like the ones on tree trimming saw poles that is used to hold two poles together for addtional height.) Then it would be a case of snap in place and pull on a cord to release.

David's design allows for a height difference between the rudder beam and the engine beam.

Paul

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 21:51:16

Paul,
You might use a tennis ball or racquetball to ward off your dome from the pokey bits.

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 06:34:58

Good idea David, should I tie it to a cord under my chin or around the back of my neck.

paul

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 08:46:02

Well, I was thinking putting the ball on the ends of things you don't want to hit your head with. However if you feel you need constant protection, wearing the balls on your head is certainly an option. You could glue several of them together to make an attractive mat-like surface to increase your protection.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 08:48:59

Paul,

It may be the photo, but it doesn't look like you have that much rudder for a port turn. Is that max rudder?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 13:05:40

yes, don. If I disconnect the link, there is still no more rotation of the rudder.

Paul

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 13:50:03

Is that all you get to starboard, too? Is it supposed to be like that? Obviously, with the tiller, I can get to nearly 90 degrees. It doesn't look like you are getting even 45 but it's hard to tell from the angle of the photo. How do you heave to? It's little wonder you have difficulty with tight turns. It will be interesting to see what the other "wheelers" have. Maybe your steering linkage needs some adjustment?????

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:57:56

Is it time to return to the soft link?
Steve

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crystal_blue
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 16:27:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Is that all you get to starboard, too? Is it supposed to be like that? Obviously, with the tiller, I can get to nearly 90 degrees. It doesn't look like you are getting even 45 but it's hard to tell from the angle of the photo. How do you heave to? It's little wonder you have difficulty with tight turns.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't have practical experience with this, but I've read some papers suggesting that a rudder becomes less efficient as it is put past 40-45 degrees. Is Paul really sacrificing that much maneuverability?

--Jim

Edited by - crystal_blue on 10/31/2007 16:28:49

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 16:55:01

You're right, it is less efficient and acts as a brake more than a steering device in normal sailing but I think the number is higher than 45 degrees. I think in slow maneuvers such as docking, more acute angles are effective in steering. I wouldn't suggest that 90 degrees is ever needed but certainly more than 45 has been helpful to me in parking Kaija. Isn't that what started this whole soft/hard link thing -- maneuverability in close quarters?

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 17:30:14

When pivoting in place in the tight confines of my marina, I sometimes have the rudder waaaay over. More closer to 90 degrees than 45.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 18:06:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When pivoting in place in the tight confines of my marina, I sometimes have the rudder waaaay over. More closer to 90 degrees than 45.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ditto, sometimes to the amusement of my dockmates.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 19:24:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 When pivoting in place in the tight confines of my marina, I sometimes have the rudder waaaay over. More closer to 90 degrees than 45.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I usually stop when the tiller hits the catbird seats after I've lifted it over the backstay.

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