Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

First post - swing keel cable

Note: You must be registered in order to post a reply.
To register, click here. Registration is FREE!

Screensize:

UserName:

Password:

Format Mode:

Format:

Message:

* HTML is OFF
* Forum Code is ON

Smilies

Check here to include your profile signature.
Check here to subscribe to this topic.

T O P I C R E V I E W
Catalississippi	Posted - 02/17/2020 : 14:46:54 First-time poster, long-time reader. Three years ago, I came into my first sailboat, a Catalina 25, the Suzy-Q. She's the most expensive boat in the water -- free. She is probably not a true "project boat," but nonetheless has a few issues which require varying degrees of attention. This may be the first of several posts I'll put out there about those varying things. I've been working up the nerve to ask all the questions here I have about fixing her up but feared getting chastised for not using the search function properly, which I have actually used quite a bit. Also, I do have Don Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual (as well as Nigel Calder's electronics book). I'll start today with a question about the keel cable. Mine needs replacing - I got into the boat knowing that, and I didn't consider it a major issue at first as I often don't mind the keel being at full depth for ballast and control, and my wife prefers it, regardless of our point of sail. We've not very serious racers (beer can league). However, our local water is our fresh water Reservoir (and the river below the dam is currently flooding our capital City here) which is quite shallow in places, and we've run aground several times. It sure would be nice simply to ratchet up the keel a few inches and sail away whenever that happens instead of needing to be towed. It has come time to replace it. I think the wench and tube are ok.) I was looking at the Catalina Direct part (stainless steel cable assembly), but I have a friend who says I should consider getting a spectra one. I also have read this thread many times (although it's not my specific boat model): http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31425&SearchTerms=vectran Obviously, that'd be great for price, assuming I could get someone to put a good splice in it and add the fork, but I get concerned about any stretch compared to the steel one. Question is this -- for a part like a keel cable, should I not get cute and just get the S/S one since it's a good replacement of the original and I know it'll work? PS -- Complicating the replacement somewhat is that I have no trailer, and our crane isn't rated to lift a boat as heavy as mine, so if I can't borrow a trailer, I'll likely hire a local diver to do the replacement work.
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Catalississippi	Posted - 10/26/2020 : 11:07:24 quote: Originally posted by dmpilc Sorry, I didn't see the posts after March here on page 2 when I wrote the post above. Glad you got the cable replaced. Thanks, and no worries. We didn't have a cable to drop into the tube on which to secure a messenger line, because the cable had broken - there was no cable in the tube. However, I explained the turning ball situation to the diver, and we got it through, on the correct, aft side of the turning ball. Works great.
dmpilc	Posted - 10/11/2020 : 07:45:40 Sorry, I didn't see the posts after March here on page 2 when I wrote the post above. Glad you got the cable replaced.
dmpilc	Posted - 10/10/2020 : 17:00:25 I'm curious. Did the diver get it done? I do hope you were able to secure a messenger line to the cable before dropping it down the tube so you could bring the new cable up on the correct side of the turning ball. I know I'm late here and should have mentioned this above back in March: the turning ball is on a pin at the top of the metal tube which is imbedded in the fiberglass "volcano" on top of the keel trunk. This is all hidden by the rubber hose which is secured to the volcano. If your diver did change the cable, I'm guessing you did not have the opportunity to change the ball unless he used a messenger line. This should not be a real big problem if the prior owners did not raise the keel very often.
Catalississippi	Posted - 06/12/2020 : 23:15:24 quote: Originally posted by Vice Commodore Great news! Enjoy the skinny water sailing! Wow, thanks! Even better to report (in a way) is that I�ve already gotten the needed opportunity to raise the keel. We ran aground in stiff wind heading out of our marina in Wednesday night�s beer can. I was relieved to be able to crank it up an inch and motor off easily. (I guess the better report would be if I hadn�t ran aground, esp in my own marina.). Totally worth it. Also of note, when the old cable fork came up, I was finally able to observe the cable break on the other end. It was right at the fork - only a half inch of cable remains on the old fork. It didn�t pull out of the fork tube, just broke off right at it. Don�t know what that means (maybe over-cranked?), but I hope it means the turning ball was not the culprit, seeing as I can�t replace it or even see it.
Vice Commodore	Posted - 06/11/2020 : 06:37:30 Great news! Enjoy the skinny water sailing!
Catalississippi	Posted - 06/07/2020 : 11:39:26 OP here with an update and some great news. Diver from a local dive club came out today, and the Suzy-Q has a (functioning) swing keel once again! All fixed up and working great. Lifted the keel and lowered it 4x. (The diver also cleaned the boat bottom - the portion that was submerged. Thanks to all for your input.
Stinkpotter	Posted - 03/09/2020 : 09:28:30 quote: Originally posted by Catalississippi ...I quickly realized that those two hose clamps might be the most important pieces of equipment on my boat! Don't replace them from the hardware store (unless you check them with a magnet).
Catalississippi	Posted - 03/09/2020 : 09:07:59 quote: Originally posted by dmpilc I caution you again, do not attempt to remove the rubber hose between the keel trunk and the cable winch while the boat is in the water. Thanks, and no worries there. I removed the companionway steps this weekend so I could service the wench, and that allowed me to look down into the tube and see exactly where the water level is. I quickly realized that those two hose clamps might be the most important pieces of equipment on my boat! Thanks again.
dmpilc	Posted - 03/09/2020 : 07:30:08 I caution you again, do not attempt to remove the rubber hose between the keel trunk and the cable winch while the boat is in the water.
Catalississippi	Posted - 03/06/2020 : 18:38:16 Found a diver - he can come do it while in my slip at the JYC. Should have my new cable installed in a few weeks. Depending on the time it takes (charges by the hour), I may ask him to clean the bottom, too.
dmpilc	Posted - 02/26/2020 : 16:00:21 If your boat is on Barnett, talk to folks at the Jackson Yacht Club. someone there might be able to help you.
dmpilc	Posted - 02/26/2020 : 15:47:18 I own a C-22 and for five years owned a swing-keel C-25. Both boats are similar in design regarding the swing keel. The rubber hose that the keel cable runs through is there because the top of the "volcano" on the keel trunk that the cable passes through is at or below the waterline, at least it is on the C-22, especially when you are on the boat. Do not attempt to remove the rubber hose or the turning ball while the boat is in the water. Remember, this boat weighs about 4,200 to 4500 lbs empty. It took me about 6 months to find a used trailer for mine, and the one I ended up with was in Ohio (I'm in Tennessee) for a fin keel C-25. Useful for bottom painting and keel cable replacement, but does require deeper water for haul-out. If there are larger sailboats on your lake, someone might have a trailer that could hold your boat. Your only other probable option is renting a mobile crane for a few hours, and you would need jack stands for safety.
capted	Posted - 02/25/2020 : 20:34:34 You are correct about how to install a new cable. The top end of the cable is clamped to the winch, and the bottom of the cable has a clevis fitting which won't fit through the hull. So the diver has to pull the old cable down and out, then feed the new cable end up through the hull to his helper. I still doubt you can replace the turning ball without hauling, but there may be some workaround as discussed. Perhaps after you get the keel up you could get the boat on a lift? How did the boat get into the water to start? Incidentally, a keel fall may not sink the boat. When mine fell, it created a small leak, but I got the boat hauled that day. However, it cost a summer and today's equivalent of $10-15K to get all properly repaired. Ed
islander	Posted - 02/25/2020 : 11:58:43 I would ask around. Surely these other boats aren't relying on a single crane at $2000. Sure would be an expensive bottom paint job or having to change some zincs if they are.
Steve Milby	Posted - 02/25/2020 : 11:58:08 It sounds like your best recourse is still a diver. You could contact a local dive club and ask if any member would be willing to help you. Explain your predicament and offer to pay. Divers enjoy occasionally having a "task," instead of just sightseeing. My friend's boat was sunk at it's mooring by lightning, and a local dive club raised it for him as a club project.
Catalississippi	Posted - 02/25/2020 : 11:27:23 quote: Originally posted by Stinkpotter I just revisited your reservoir on Google Earth--I remember driving along it on the Natchez Trace back in the '70s. I recall looking at a lot of tree trunks and stumps--probably great fishing, but it looked a bit unlikely for sailing..... I see the Jackson Yacht Club and a nearby marina (?) with what appears to be a lot of good-sized sailboats--bigger than a C-25 and pretty big for trailer launching/retrieving--at least one looks like it could be 36' x 12' beam, which suggests 6-8 tons dry. However, I don't see any travel-lifts, big fork lifts, or the slips you need for them. How did these big guys get into the water and expect to be able to get out? They certainly weren't sailed there originally, and I wouldn't think they're all permanent. Just curious... Good questions, all, and I honestly don't know the answer as to how they got there. There are definitely many boats out there bigger than my C-25. I'd guess what you're seeing is England Harbor near the JYC, and it actually belongs to the JYC - it's our other harbor with cheaper slips and has availability for non-members. There is also Main Harbor on the western corner, but it is mostly covered slips for houseboat and the like these days, though there are some sailboats there, but no crane. The biggest permanent crane I know of is ours at the JYC, but there is of course a company that charges about $2,000 to bring out a temporary crane which could handle lifting larger boats. (The issue then would be, at least for me, how to get it back in when I complete my repairs and where to put it in the meantime.) Sounds like your memory is working well. There are a few stumps still there, particularly up-river, as it is a shallow body of water (avg. 10 ft) with its primary purpose to be a drinking water source for the area, but also for recreation. It's even lower in the winter months, purposefully. However, there is good sailing to be had. It's about 33,000 acres/51 sq. miles of water. If you were seeing it from the Trace, you were probably seeing some of the more shallow parts good for fishing on the western side. Most of the races are within an area (somewhat) closer to the dam, and courses typically follow channel markers and other bouys to keep folks deep enough to prevent running aground. It may not be much, but it is what we have here in our backyard. But this should explain why I want to be able to pull my keel up.
glivs	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 17:33:36 Bruce, thanks for the flag about the FW sailing venue. I clearly missed it when I skimmed through the thread.
Voyager	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 16:29:23 Make sure to sail into shallow water if�n ya do
Davy J	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 11:30:43 Here is another, although somewhat scary way to get the turning ball while the boat is in the water. First remove the cable, then use a Forespar Sta-Plug to close the hole, remove the turning ball, install new turning ball, replace hose and clamps, then remove plug and install new cable...... scary.... Forespar Sta-Plug
Davy J	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 11:18:15 One suggestion might be to talk to boat transport companies that can handle sailboats. There are many here in Florida, and many have specialized trailers for sailboats. Not sure where you are located. It might be pricey though. When I owned my Catalina, I owned a waterfront home and also had a powerboat on a lift. When it came time to change the cable, I added some makeshift chocks to the boat lift and lifted the Catalina. I had photos of the arrangement but photobucket has them locked up.
Stinkpotter	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 09:52:59 I just revisited your reservoir on Google Earth--I remember driving along it on the Natchez Trace back in the '70s. I recall looking at a lot of tree trunks and stumps--probably great fishing, but it looked a bit unlikely for sailing..... I see the Jackson Yacht Club and a nearby marina (?) with what appears to be a lot of good-sized sailboats--bigger than a C-25 and pretty big for trailer launching/retrieving--at least one looks like it could be 36' x 12' beam, which suggests 6-8 tons dry. However, I don't see any travel-lifts, big fork lifts, or the slips you need for them. How did these big guys get into the water and expect to be able to get out? They certainly weren't sailed there originally, and I wouldn't think they're all permanent. Just curious...
Voyager	Posted - 02/23/2020 : 07:55:54 I think you said it right here: Quote: �However, our local water is our fresh water Reservoir (and the river below the dam is currently flooding our capital City here) which is quite shallow in places, and we've run aground several times. It sure would be nice simply to ratchet up the keel a few inches and sail away whenever that happens instead of needing to be towed. It has come time to replace it� So you�re limited in the number of marinas that can do the haul. You usually keep the keel in the full-down position, but you�d like to be able to retract it when you run aground. If the cable is ready to go at any time, I would not use it. If the keel drops accidentally it will most certainly hole your bottom and sink it. I don�t have a SK and don�t know the details on how to replace the cable, but if there�s any way to haul it or go on Craigslist to find a trailer, it�s definitely worthwhile. A sunk boat, especially in 8-10 feet of water can be an embarrassment and it�ll really ruin your day!
glivs	Posted - 02/22/2020 : 20:37:43 Let me be a bit blunt. Listen carefully to the suggestions offered. The knowledge and experience here is substantial although, of course, we do not know your situation. In particular, I don't know if you are on salt water and able to move between marinas or are confined to the services available on an inland lake, but if it makes sense and you intend on keeping this boat I'd locate the nearest marina with a travel lift that could handle your C25 and schedule to have the boat hauled and placed on stands. Similarly, if you are new to working on and understanding how swing keels function then this is one project you do not want to cut corners on. You saved notably on the cost of the boat, so why not invest in ensuring it is safe. You could get lucky and find a C25 swing-keel trailer but I wouldn't hold your breath. If your cable is questionable, then yes replace it asap but that should not deter you from hauling the boat to replace the turning ball and thoroughly inspecting the remaining lifting hardware. You could/should also address the bottom if need be. As Dave alluded, the potential damage caused by an accidental fall of a raised keel can be significant. If your situation is such that you cannot access a suitable lift, then I'd seek further advice here on the forum. Good luck and keep us posted on your efforts.
Catalississippi	Posted - 02/22/2020 : 19:25:20 Thanks again. The marina at my yacht club here has a crane rated only at 2,000 lbs., so that's out as an option. Additionally, I cannot find anyone here with a C-25 trailer or even a different trailer but which could handle a C-25. That has surprised me, but I will keep looking. However, even if I could find one, from what I understand, I won't be able to get it onto the trailer with the keel down (at least not at our specific launch ramp). Many slips have lifts at our club, and I'm looking into the possibility of borrowing one of those, but they are also likely not rated for a 4,000-lb. boat. There is a rental crane company that would come out and lift it, but they charge more in one day than this boat is probably worth. Of course, I could look into buying one (not sure where) or even seeing if there is one not too far away from me here - if it's only a few hours' drive, perhaps I could rent it from another person for a few weeks. That's all speculation. It looks like my most realistic option in the near future is hiring a diver. On the feeding of the cable down through the tube to the diver, I would have assumed that it would have to go the other way - that the diver feeds it up to me in the cabin - because of the fork which I assume wouldn't fit over one side of the turning ball within the tube. I could be wrong of course, as that's just an assumption. Any further input which y'all (please excuse my drawl) may have would certainly be welcome as I'm still trying to think through this task.
Stinkpotter	Posted - 02/22/2020 : 10:05:59 quote: Originally posted by capted You don't want to have a new cable wear through and break with the keel up! Very expensive. ...especially including having the boat lifted off the bottom...

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.